tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post7042626244893937276..comments2023-09-08T06:31:18.925-05:00Comments on Belgium Knee Warmers™: Positively Positive?Radio Freddyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07419506761098758178noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-38738774967858291562007-10-26T12:35:00.000-05:002007-10-26T12:35:00.000-05:00This is from a New York Times article published on...This is from a New York Times article published on June 30, 2006:<BR/><BR/>Diagnostic tests that detect the illegal use of steroids, amphetamines and other substances banned in cycling and most other sports are relatively simple: a machine spits out the scientific equivalent of a plus or minus sign. The EPO test, in contrast, spits out a Rorschach blot, with results that must be interpreted by someone skilled in the art.<BR/><BR/>"The test is actually a very good one, but it's technically complicated," said Steven Elliott, the scientific director of Amgen, the biotechnology company that invented the pharmaceutical form of EPO. "If done properly, it works extremely well. But it's not just something that can be done by any lab."<BR/><BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/30/sports/othersports/30tour.html<BR/><BR/>Leaving aside the issue of LNDD's competence, I question the wisdom of employing a lab that goes on vacation for all of August for a race that takes up most of July and historically requires retests of samples. If LNDD wants the job, they should stick around to do it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-25620710285510664632007-10-26T00:01:00.000-05:002007-10-26T00:01:00.000-05:00All: Thanks for your comments and compliments.Snoo...All: Thanks for your comments and compliments.<BR/>Snood: The expert we spoke to (who has read many EPO tests) says a properly executed test is unequivocal in its result. If the work is a little sloppy, the results will be a little wavy, but clear enough to judge.<BR/>Tarik and Art: We are told that unlike the IRMS test--which can be manipulated--the EPO test has no room for manipulation in order to force a particular outcome.<BR/>Zenmud: As to the substitution of labs, it is based on nothing more nefarious than France going on vacation for all of August. We like the blog, and will keep watching.<BR/>Bikesgonewild: You touch on what has been the most troubling pattern of behavior I have identified with regard to the UCI and WADA: All indications are that any adverse analytic finding automatically moves to the penatly phase; there isn't a period of impartial investigation. Thanks for daring to use the "O" word--Ombudsman--that's needed given that so few trust the process.Padraighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14806791547912750107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-73173973248794100592007-10-25T19:16:00.000-05:002007-10-25T19:16:00.000-05:00ellipse overload! eek!ellipse overload! eek!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-88183047429351268312007-10-25T17:29:00.000-05:002007-10-25T17:29:00.000-05:00...yes, truly an excellent post...w/ all the talk ......yes, truly an excellent post...w/ all the talk now about a 'biological passport', i'm wondering if even that will be definitive enough to establish a reliable 'base' that can be worked with ???...<BR/><BR/>...i'd also like to hear some discussion from the "powers that be" regarding a neutral or as tarik mentioned, impartial, dedicated to cycling, laboratory w/ specific state of the art procedures...watched over by scientific ombudsmen...<BR/>...any procedure out of the ordinary results in a pass, gone, tossed out, test results leaked, pass, gone, tossed out...<BR/><BR/>...now is the time & opportunity to establish a bona fide, iron clad testing procedural...<BR/>...there should also be a separate facility dedicated to looking into the latest scientific information to define what direction cheating might go & eradicate it before it is utilized...<BR/><BR/>...yes, this would be an expensive venture but if it worked, it would add much needed credibility to the sport of cycling & would serve as a model for others...<BR/><BR/>...handsomely pay the best scientific minds to define & thus stop the cheating as opposed to the financial undercurrent that supports & condones the present regime...<BR/><BR/>...btw, nice photo of mayo & that other guy...sheesh...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-3847880649190015912007-10-25T11:33:00.000-05:002007-10-25T11:33:00.000-05:00Hi Padraing, I've posted several items at WADAwatc...Hi Padraing, <BR/><BR/>I've posted several items at WADAwatch.blogspot.com on this, mostly confirming your take on it.<BR/><BR/>But I think this is the first time *UCI* itself, is reversing itself, and my opinion comes from the words of Anne Gripper herself. I don't think she knows what rules she's operating a multi-million CHf budget with.<BR/><BR/>ISLab specifically states "... should be ...30 days ... <B> must be </B> same lab" and then... LNDD (now 'département des analyses' under AFLD) goes "on vacation"???<BR/><BR/>I think they took a STRIKE against UCI, refusing to do the lab-work they were <B> previously paid for!</B><BR/><BR/>Send a couple readers my way, and I write a bunch at topix.net also 'Floyd Landis Forum'...<BR/><BR/>Cheers, pardner!<BR/><BR/>ZENmudZENmud productionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07520070316585915774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-28706681943028372342007-10-25T08:33:00.000-05:002007-10-25T08:33:00.000-05:00Agree - Freddy this is you best piece yet. Great ...Agree - Freddy this is you best piece yet. Great analysis.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383863263923439025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-68899254789687440732007-10-24T19:47:00.000-05:002007-10-24T19:47:00.000-05:00We can draw one of two equally horrifying conclusi...We can draw one of two equally horrifying conclusions from this. Either the French lab was using a "turn the knob until it looks positive" protocol and the Belgian lab is calling them out on it, or the French lab did everything right and the Belgians can't identify a legitimate positive under any conditions. Both cases point towards every test result, positive or negative, possibly lying somewhere between suspect and outright fraudulent. Making a public statement like this certainly isn't doing much for an organization whose relevance is already in question.Arthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16355078079362433260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-71928183070365226442007-10-24T16:15:00.000-05:002007-10-24T16:15:00.000-05:00Anon--While our photographs come from a variety of...Anon--While our photographs come from a variety of sources, we are pleased to say all of our written content is original to BKW.Padraighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14806791547912750107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-82959578078747698322007-10-24T13:59:00.000-05:002007-10-24T13:59:00.000-05:00what magazine is this from?what magazine is this from?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-18274525469257938822007-10-24T12:37:00.000-05:002007-10-24T12:37:00.000-05:00good points BKW and tarik,riders have doped in cyc...good points BKW and tarik,<BR/><BR/>riders have doped in cycling for years, the UCI looked the other way for years, now that same system is trying to combat doping [cheating], than we all wonder why it is not working. how difficult is it to too write a solid, clear, simple set of rules [laws] and than operate by those procedures?blue squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09323646795956411769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-61604674614355705172007-10-24T12:17:00.000-05:002007-10-24T12:17:00.000-05:00Excellent post,That saves me from writing a much s...Excellent post,<BR/><BR/>That saves me from writing a much shoddier post about this myself. <BR/><BR/>What astounds me is that the UCI thinks it is OK to continue to test a sample to get the "correct" answer. This cuts to the fundamental problem with cycling dope testing. It is not impartial and it seems that there is no plan by the UCI to even attempt to maintain a facade of impartiality. <BR/><BR/>That they are willing to go ahead and announce that they are going to continue testing to see if they can overturn the negative is mind blowing. <BR/><BR/>The right answer is for the UCI to declare the Mayo test a negative, reinstate him and then go and figure out how and why and if their testing system failed them. And then fix the problem. <BR/><BR/>The UCI must be willing to accept that it is better to let some guilty riders go than:<BR/>a. convict innocent ones<BR/>b. ruin all their credibility by changing the rules as they go along.<BR/><BR/>This has been a persistent problem in the realm of antidoping in sport. At this point no one should give a shit whether Zabel doped in 96 or if Lance doped in in 2000, they should be spending their efforts in making sure their system is fundamentally flawless so riders like Hamilton, Landis, Heras or Mayo can be quickly banned without lengthy trials that expose legitimate uncertainties in the process.<BR/><BR/>Anyhoo, like I says, good post. <BR/><BR/>Thanks<BR/><BR/>TarikTarik Salehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09664260510124463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-16157186551816086852007-10-24T10:48:00.000-05:002007-10-24T10:48:00.000-05:00That is not true. EPO test is often fuzzy. Same th...That is not true. EPO test is often fuzzy. Same thing happened for Roberto Heras. Robertos second sample was tested two times because one was fuzzy. Roberto was banned for two years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2821760991275369602.post-29722868845323945112007-10-24T10:25:00.000-05:002007-10-24T10:25:00.000-05:00Excellent analysis.Excellent analysis.crankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18124902935412553898noreply@blogger.com